Meeting with PI and CCC

[sorac]

This is a brief report on todays meeting, Attending for PI, Mike Petruis, John Neville and Chris Hartrey on behalf of CCC Kevin Doyke and a representative of Sport Cardiff.

Sorac had decided beforehand not to waste the meeeting dwelling on the Temporary facility as the answers would be, these problems will be solved by the delivery of a new facility ( This excuse had been used in a letter sent to us ). The one issue that will carry on in to the new rink is Ice Time for all groups, this brought about discussion on the two pad facility. Mike Petruis stated that a good business case could not be made for the two pad facility and he was not prepared to take a gamble with his company on Cardiff.

Kevin Doyle stated that the Devils two pad facility would have meant a 10% rise to the cost of skating. Sorac enquired wether the council had done any research with the rink users to see if that was acceptable ( to a parent who gets out of bed and to the rink by 5.30 am to get their kids on to the ice for figure skating training, it might be a small price to pay, for facilities that are better it may be acceptable) No such research had taken place although he said the Council had used a team of experts to advise, Sorac asked if it was the same team of experts that had advised on the temporary facility with its poor sightlines, Kevin replied that it was not

Mike Petruis then showed his tender portfolio and the internals were the Skydome although we were shown a newer plan which had been slightly modified but overall impressions, Skydome in a box,

There were numerous exchanges between parents of figure skaters and Mike Petruis re: patch payments etc

Kevin Doyle had said his brief had been to provide a facility to replace the WNIR. Sorac believe the brief should be challenged and that CCC didn t research the rink users views

Mike Petruis then offered to build a two pad rink if the Devils would surrender the 3 years free ice time they were entitled to under the terms of the tender. He then invited Shannon Hope ( Cardiff Devils ) in to a partnership with PI to build the rink

Shannon said he would get back to him by Dec 11th,Although this may be a delaying tactic by Mr Petruis for whatever reason

Mike Petruis said at the end of the meeting that the blue tent would be relocated to Swansea after the new rink was constructed.

Sorac feel that this might be why the twin pad would not be viable, PI would be making the cachment area smaller, and would also be providing competition for the Devils proposals had they won the tender although we believe that people will pay and travel for better facilities,

As I said at the beginning this is a brief outline and SORAC will be discussing the meeting and a course of action at a SORAC meeting next week,

Please add any concerns to this thread and we will add them to the agenda

[bbw]

With regard to a twin pad, more ice time could surely mean more user groups / scope for training or lessons, and therefore more revenue?
Demanding the Devils free ice time as the trade off seems an agressively defensive move to me, as they perhaps know deep down that what they are doing is against the wishes of the vast majority of rink users.

[koop11]

Interesting that they suggest the Devils have a 3 year free ice time clause under the terms of the tender. Even more interesting that PI would build a second pad if the Devils gave that up. I'm no economist but the sums would be worth adding up to see whether the saving made over a 3 year period could finance such a build. It seems this option holds the Devils to random a little and IMHO we cannot trust PI to deliver something satisfactory. It may be short sighted to turn that down but I would in the hope the Devils could build their own somewhere else. However, on the other hand, I think local councils will go out of their way to block permission for that to happen.

The fact that they are relocating the blue tent to Swansea certainly suggests that they have no desire to have a twin pad facility in Cardiff. From their point of view, that does make sense.

For me, the acknowledgment of the lack of research by the council just reinforces my suspicion that the tender exercise was conducted as a matter of course and was always a done deal with PI.

[sthelier]

It wasn't clear if the blue tent was to be used as an ice rink in Swansea or some other facility.

As far as the Council response to any questions went, there was clearly a party line on the specification for the new rink Kevin Doyle just kept reiterating that his remit was to build a replacement rink for the old one. What did seem apparent was that Cardiff Council have no idea who the daily users of the rink are or what their needs would be, they showed a complete lack of understanding of anything other than the so called recreational skaters of which there are, apparently, 110,000 of them!!

[thestub]

Building a rink in Swansea would probably have little impact on a Cardiff facility. Cardiff is just too far away for many of us down West to engage with ice sports. Unless they have detailed research on travelling distances. I doubt it negates the need for a dual pad facility.

If they are looking at progressing down to our area then I think I may have to contact my local council to suggest visiting your rink to see what they are getting themselves into.

On another note, Skydome mk II wouldn't be as good as the WNIR. Plus, if Cardiff council are serious about being a major capital, you would think they would have pride in a great facility.

Is SORAC undertaking the rink usage survey for CCC and PI?

[finny]

My initial thoughts from looking at that one-pad design from PI - was that it was still not fit for purpose.
At the meeting Shannon mentioned more corporate facilities. On the designs we saw it looked like there was only one corporate box in the corner like we have now. Except there was only one not two!
The bar/cafe is once again on the ground floor which once again means it will not be overlooking the ice to allow parents to sit somewhere warm whilst watching their kids train. I also struggled to see how it would be any bigger than what we have now? If anything it looked smaller?
And yet at the far end of the building there is no seating (horse-shoe shape). Yet the entrance and food area means that part extends out further - yet from what I could see there were nothing on top of that. Why not put a large bar there which then overlooks the ice???

From a fans perspective, a small bar not overlooking the ice and walkways at the front of the blocks restricting peoples views mean that the new designs are still not a replacement for the WNIR.
And from what Shannon said at the meeting and on Sky Sports - there is no way that design will be suitable for their corporate guests which are so important now.

[lucas69]

Even Medway (a shed of a rink) provides some of the basic features you're discussing.

[beachbum4034]

As an engineer and someone who regularly runs big money projects I'm confused on a professional level and as a hockey player I'm even more confused. I'm fully aware that all PI want to do is host 'ice disco's' as they mean 100+ skaters on the ice which equals £. However the more demanding ice users (and rightly so) which are figure skaters and hockey players can tell that the ice surface is sub standard. I've lost count of the hockey games which have been stopped due to bad ice. A twin pad facility let's the maintenance crew have more time to ensure the ice plant is working correctly. Finally, it is my understanding that the council are required to explain in writing why PI were the correct choice. Anyone with an open mind who has visited the tent or the skydome would ask some HUGE questions of PI before awarding a tender.

[andrewbradbury]

Having now briefly seen the A4 plans of the single pad ice rink proposed by Planet Ice at the meeting last week, it is my firm opinion that the proposed design is a less than suitable replacement for the old WNIR and is not-fit-for-purpose..

I do not blame Planet Ice for their carbon copy plans, taken from the Coventry Skydome (..I suspect it has saved them thousands of £ in architects fees), they are a private company and more than happy to operate a single ice pad, if they can get away with the least amount of investment necessary..

However it is Cardiff City Council which seems to be lacking the vision and or desire to build something more suitable for the capital of Wales and the future, and I would like to see proof of the Councils strategy, it’s broad aims and objectives for a replacement for the WNIR..

In the final analysis the whole International Sports Village ice rink strategy, the preparation of the design specification, any subsequent consultation process, the preparation of the tender documents and the successful submission, appear to have created a less than satisfactory replacement for the WNIR which in my opinion, does not meet the fit-for-purpose requirements expected by all the user’s of the facilities..

I shall look forward to attending the next SORAC meeting..